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G-i-P Report: Complete Sindarin dialogs from The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug!


[Elendilion, a Polish website about Tolkien and Tolkienists, has about 100 articles in English (Westron). See them here.]

Another Christmas and another honest gift from the Hungarian linguist, Gabor „Cerebrum” Lorinczi (of Parf-en-Ereglas website)! Below you will find his analysis concerning the Sindarin phrases from the movie The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug. Cerebrum wrote in his message:

This time, because of a lot of uncertainty, I can provide only a quasi-complete analysis of the Sindarin dialogues from the movie.

I marked in red those words I have no idea about and in blue those I am not sure of. (In both of these cases, there is a chance that the spelling is not correct.) I am really curious about your opinion on these

Alae, the dialogues in chronological order:

1. Legolas and Tauriel (after the battle with the spiders):

L: Gyrth in yngyl bain?

T: Ennorner gwanod in yngyl na nyr(y)n/nan yr(y)n. E(n)gain nar.

(subtitle) L: Are the spiders dead? (lit.: L: Are all spiders dead?)

(subtitle) T: Yes, but more will come. They are growing bolder. (lit.: T: …number of spiders… They are bolder.)

 

gyrth: pl. form of gorth (dead)

in: pl. form of i (the)

yngyl: pl. form of ungol (spider)

bain: len. pl. form of pân (all)

?*ennorner: ??? [it may be the 3rd p. pl. form of a verb, but what verb and tense?]

gwanod: number

?na nyr(y)n (or nan yr(y)n): ??? [nan yr(y)n can mean “to/by the trees” and na nyrn “to/by Dwarves”, but neither of them seem to make much sense in this context]

?*e(n)gain: bolder < an– + *cain (bold) (cf. Q canya)

nar: 3rd p. pl. form of na (be)

 

2. Legolas (investigating Orcrist, Thorin’s sword):

Echannen i vegil hen vin Gondolin. Magannen nan Gelydh.

(subtitle) This is an ancient Elvish blade. Forged by my kin. (lit.: This sword was made in Gondolin. Forged by the Noldor.)

 

echannen: pp. form of echad- (to make)

i: the

vegil: len. form of megil (sword)

hen: len. form of sen (this)

vi(n): in

*magannen: pp. form of *maga– (to forge) (cf. Q maca-)

nan: by the < na + in

Gelydh: pl. form of Golodh (Gnome)

 

3. Legolas to the other Elves (after finishing disarming the Dwarves):

Enwenno hain!

(no subtitle)

 

?*enwenno: imp. form of *enwenna– (???) [from the context it must mean ‘take’ or something like that]

hain: them

 

4. Legolas to the guards (after returning to Thranduil’s palace):

Holo in ennyn!

(subtitle) Close the gate! (lit.: Close the gates!)

 

holo: imp. form of hol- (to close)

in: pl. form of i (the)

ennyn: pl. form of annon (gate)

 

5. Legolas and Tauriel (in the dungeon):

L: I Nogoth… amman e tîr gi(n)? Tauriel?
T: Ú-dangada? E orchal be Nogoth… …pedithig.

L: Orchal eb vui… mal uvanui en.

(subtitle) L: Why does the Dwarf stare at you, Tauriel?

(subtitle) T: Who can say? He is quite tall for a Dwarf. Do you not think?
(subtitle) L: Taller than some, but no less ugly. (lit.: L: …but still ugly.)

 

i: the

Nogoth: Dwarf

*amman: why? (lit.: what for?) < an (for) + man (what?)

e: he

tîr: 3rd p. sg. form of tir- (to watch)

?*gi(n): len. form of *ci(n) (thou)

?ú-dangada: ú- (not) + len. 3rd sg. form of tangada- (to confirm, establish) [but what is ú-dangada supposed to exactly mean in this context?]

orchal: tall

be: according to

?pedithig: 2nd p. sg. fut. inf. form of ped- (to speak) [shouldn’t it be rather pedithog?]

?*eb: than (lit.: before) (cf. Q epe)

?*vui: len. pl. form of *maw (one, some) (cf. Q mo)

*mal: but (cf. Q mal)

*uvanui: ugly (lit.: not fair) < ú- (not) + bân (fair) + -ui

?*en: still (cf. Q en)

 

6. Tauriel to Kili:

It is Mereth-en-Gilith, the Feast of Starlight.

 

mereth: feast

en: of the

gilith: stars (lit.: the region of stars)

 

7. Tauriel to the guards (while running to the cellar):

Tolo hi!

(no subtitle) (lit.: Come now!)

 

tolo: imp. form of tol- (to come)

hi: len. form of si

 

8. Legolas to Tauriel (who is putting a knife to the throat of the captured Orc):

Tauriel! Dartho! Ú-no hono. Ho hebo cuin.

(subtitle) Wait! This one we keep alive. (lit.: Tauriel! Wait! Not him. Keep him alive.)


dartho: imp. form of dartha- (to wait)

ú-no: be not < ú- (not) + no imp. form of na- (be)

ho(no): he [why the nominative forms are used?]
hebo: imp. form of heb- (to keep)

cuin: alive

 

9: Thranduil to Tauriel (when she attacks the captured Orc):

Farn! Tauriel, ego! Gwao hi!

(subtitle) Enough! Tauriel, leave! Go now!

 

farn: enough

ego: be off! [too rude, an Elf would never use this word in a situation like this]

?gwao: imp. form of gwa- (to go)

hi: len. form of si (now)

 

10. Legolas and the guard:

L: Holo in ennyn! Tiro i defnin hain na ganed en-Aran!

G: Man os Tauriel?
L: Man os sen?
G: Edevín eb enedhor na gû a megil. En ú-nandollen.

(subtitle) L: Close the gate! Keep it sealed by order of the King. (lit.: Close the gates! Watch that they are closed by the call of the King.)

(subtitle) G: What about Tauriel?

(subtitle) L: What about her?

(subtitle) G: She went into the forest armed with her bow and blade. She has not returned. (lit.: She went out before midday with her bow and blade. Still not returned.)

 

holo: imp. form of hol– (close)

in: pl. form of i (the)

ennyn: pl. form of annon (gate)

tiro: imp. form of tir– (to watch)

defnin: len. pl. form of tafnen (closed)

hain: them

na: by

ganed: len. form of caned (call) < can– (to call)

en: of the

Aran: King

man: what?

os: about [as an archaic form of o?]

*sen: her

?*edevín (she) went out < ed- (out) + 3rd p. sg. pa.t. aug. form of *men- (to go)

?*eb: before (cf. Q epe) [though of time Q epe means „after”]

?*enedhor: noon (lit. midday) < enedh (middle) + aur (day)

na: with

: len. form of (bow)

a: and

megil: sword [shouldn’t it be lenited as well?]

?*en: still (cf. Q en)

ú-nandollen: ú- (not) + len. pp. form of dandol– (to come back)

 

11. Tauriel and Legolas (by the river):

T: Ingannen le Orch.

L: Cí Orch im, dangen le.

L: Dandolo na nin! E gohenatha.

T: Ú-’ohenathon. Cí dadwenithon, ú-’ohenathon im.

T: Tell me, mellon

 

(subtitle) T: I thought you were an Orc.

(subtitle) L: If I were an Orc, you would be dead.

(subtitle) L: Come back with me. He will forgive you.

(subtitle) T: But I will not. If I go back, I will not forgive myself.

 

*ingannen: 1st p. sg. pa.t. form of *inga– (to guess)

le: you [why did they switch to formal Sindarin? in the dungeon they had „thoued” each other]

Orch: Orc

*: if (cf. Q )

im: I, myself

dangen: slain

dandolo: imp. form of dandol– (to come back)

na: with, by

nin: me

e: he [i.e. Thranduil]

gohenatha: 3rd p. sg. fut. form of gohena– (to forgive) [since Tauriel is Thranduil’s subject, the use of dihena- would have been more accurate here, I think]

ú-’ohenathon: ú– (not) + len. 1st p. sg. fut. form of gohena– (to forgive)

dadwenithon: 1st p. sg. fut. form of dadwen– (to return)

mellon: friend

 

12. Tauriel’s spell:

Menno o nin na hon i eliad annen annin, hon leitho o ngurth.

(no subtitle) (lit.: „May the blessing that was given to me be sent from me to him, may he be released from death”.)

 

?*menno: imp. form of *menna- (to send) (cf. Q menta-)

o nin: from me < o + nin

na *hon: to him < na + *son

i: the (sg.)

eliad: ger. form of elia- (to bless)

annen: pp. form of anna- (to give) [shouldn’t it be rather onen?]
annin
: to/for me < an + nin
*hon: len. form of *son

leitho
: imp. form of of leitha- (to release)
o ngurth
: from death < o + gurth

_____________________

G-i-P stands for Gwaith-i-Phethain, ‘The Fellowship of the Word-smiths’ or the linguistic website devoted to post-Tolkienian constructions in the “reconstructed” languages of Middle-earth [link].

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Kategorie wpisu: Adaptacje tolkienowskie, Filmy: Hobbit i WP, G-i-P Report, Lingwistyka, News in Westron (English)

9 Komentarzy do wpisu "G-i-P Report: Complete Sindarin dialogs from The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug!"

Rembrethil, dnia 22.12.2013 o godzinie 14:24

Ú-dangada was supposed by David Salo to be an idiom for ‚I do not understand’ literally it means ‚ I do/can not confirm/ I am not sure’

Eruantalon, dnia 23.12.2013 o godzinie 14:06

I struggle with learning Elvish! I don’t remember words I just learned. However I recognise a few. When I watched DOS, I knew that Legolas said that Orchrist was made in Gondolin, and I also understood part of Tauriel’s spell as ‚save him from death’.

Eruantalon, dnia 23.12.2013 o godzinie 14:10

I also thaught that ‚Close the gate! Keep it sealed by order of the King.’ must be ? ennyn ??? en aran.

Eruantalon, dnia 06.04.2014 o godzinie 7:33

I can’t find any Sindarin dailog when the dwarves get
arrested by
Legolas and co.
So here is what I heared:
?meno nogo?
Dartho nu ?nogo?
Wait under ?
Dino ?nogo?
quite ??
Legolas hir nín.
Legolas my lord (upon presenting Orcrist)
Then later when the dwarwes escape:
?Wai hoen? Must be ‚gwa hyn’
They are gone.
?Hirro nogothrim? Could be ‚by the north bridge’
Find the dwarwes!

Ithildur, dnia 18.04.2014 o godzinie 2:34

Concerning Tauriel’s „Ennorner gwanod in yngyl […]”, the logical ending is probably „[…] nan yryn”.

The analyst, above, says that translated as “to/by the trees”, it does not „seem to make much sense in this context”.

Why not? Yryn is probably the lenited form of ‚eryn’ = forest — the forest here being Mirkwood, or part of it.

So we would have „[Ennorner] number the spiders into the forest.”

It makes sense : Tauriel is informing Legolas that the number of big spiders is increasing in the forest of Mirkwood, of which Thranduil’s kingdom represents the northernmost part.

Concerning ‚Ennorner’ : ‚ennor’ means „middle land”. If so, the suffix -ner has to be explained.

Maybe Tauriel is stating that the middle part of Mirkwood is being invaded by big spiders originating from the southern part — the Dol Guldur region.

If so, we would have something like this :

„In/from the middle-land [of Mirkwood], a [big] number of spiders [is] into the forest.”

According to Salo’s book, we have to take note that the y-letter, in the movie dialogue, is pronounced as the French ‚u’ : and effectively, the actors playing Legolas and Tauriel do pronounce the y-letters as French u-letters — which English-speaking persons usually cannot pronounce, the English ‚u’ sounding like the French ”ou”.

Ithildur, dnia 17.06.2014 o godzinie 4:31

Two months later … Nobody has discussed my hypothetical post ! I was not 100% certain : it only was an hypothesis.

Owner of the DVD, I have listened to Tauriel dozens of times, and I always hear the sound „u-run” (where ‚u’ is pronounced in the French manner), corresponding to „yryn” — because, according to Salo’s book, the letter ‚y’ is pronounced like the French ‚u’.

„Eryn” means ‚wood’ or ‚forest’. In my previous post, I supposed that „yryn” was a lenited form of „eryn”. It was an hypothesis.

In Tauriel’s sentence, another problem is „ennorner”. Since ‚ennor’ means „middle land” (according to Salo’s book), it is tempting to link the two words.

Since Legolas asks Tauriel „Are all spiders dead ?” my hypothesis has some measure of credibility. She might be answering : „From the middle-land [of Mirkwood], a [big] number of spiders [is coming] into the forest.”

The official English subtitle „Yes, but more will come” does not correspond in any form to what Tauriel is saying in Sindarin.

I am sad that Professor Salo has not made public his views on the two ‚Hobbit’ movies dialogues, since he — and only he — is the creator of the movies’ Sindarin dialogues ! Only he can resolve all of the issues raised on this website. I have trouble understanding why fans of Sindarin have not tried to contact him … and why he would refuse to answer them.

Kemmuel, dnia 26.02.2015 o godzinie 18:12

Could it be that ‚ennorner’ is unusual 3rd prs. past tense of **en-nor- i.e. to run again? Whith Ithildur’s intresting idea that would give ‚ennorner gwanod in yngyl nan yryn’ – the number of spiders have rentered (run again into) the forests. Naive?

Ithildur, dnia 21.04.2015 o godzinie 19:24

If Kemmuel’s hypothesis concerning an „unusual 3rd prs. past tense of **en-nor- i.e. to run again” is linguistically plausible, I find Kemmuel’s translation quite acceptable — better than my „ennor=middle-land” hypothesis. We would then have :

Tauriel : Run again number the spiders into forest = Numerous spiders have re-entered into the forest.

She is answering Legolas’ question concerning the death of the spiders by informing him that the ones they have just killed were only a group belonging to a bigger invasion of spiders, coming from the south (originally, from Dol Guldur).

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