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	<title>Komentarze do: What do we know about the ancestors of J.R.R. Tolkien? (monograph)</title>
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	<link>http://www.elendilion.pl/2010/02/06/what-do-we-know-about-the-ancestors-of-j-r-r-tolkien-monograph/</link>
	<description>Aktualności ze świata miłośników twórczości Tolkiena</description>
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		<title>Autor: TAO</title>
		<link>http://www.elendilion.pl/2010/02/06/what-do-we-know-about-the-ancestors-of-j-r-r-tolkien-monograph/comment-page-1/#comment-12548</link>
		<dc:creator>TAO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>All materials, concerning Tolkien family quoted by me are taken from the web resources. I have no possibilities to deal with the original British documents. The &#8222;Tonkien&#8221; version was mentioned on the http://forums.theonering.com topic &#8222;Tolkien in the 1881 Census&#8221; at least twice by Almatolmen on Oct27, 2005 and Jun27, 2007, as based on the 1901 Census. 

I doubt if such mistakes could be ascribed to the OCR fault, rather to the fault of census taker or further copyist. Such misreadings of the documents written by hand were rather common &#8211; I know some from my own family history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All materials, concerning Tolkien family quoted by me are taken from the web resources. I have no possibilities to deal with the original British documents. The &#8222;Tonkien&#8221; version was mentioned on the <a href="http://forums.theonering.com" rel="nofollow">http://forums.theonering.com</a> topic &#8222;Tolkien in the 1881 Census&#8221; at least twice by Almatolmen on Oct27, 2005 and Jun27, 2007, as based on the 1901 Census. </p>
<p>I doubt if such mistakes could be ascribed to the OCR fault, rather to the fault of census taker or further copyist. Such misreadings of the documents written by hand were rather common &#8211; I know some from my own family history.</p>
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		<title>Autor: Galadhorn</title>
		<link>http://www.elendilion.pl/2010/02/06/what-do-we-know-about-the-ancestors-of-j-r-r-tolkien-monograph/comment-page-1/#comment-12545</link>
		<dc:creator>Galadhorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My maternal family line is in fact German (my mother was born Wolff). Looking for the genealogical data I found out that the German sources are very helpful. I hope one day the German Tolkien scholars will provide us with the detailed reconstruction of the German family of the Tolkiens/Tolkiehns genealogy. I hope it is still possible to find the ancestors of J.R.R.T.&#039;s line of the Tolkiens.

Wayne and Christina, my great thanks for visiting us and commenting this news. It&#039;s an honour to see the commentary of the famous Hammond &amp; Scull. Have a good weekend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My maternal family line is in fact German (my mother was born Wolff). Looking for the genealogical data I found out that the German sources are very helpful. I hope one day the German Tolkien scholars will provide us with the detailed reconstruction of the German family of the Tolkiens/Tolkiehns genealogy. I hope it is still possible to find the ancestors of J.R.R.T.&#8217;s line of the Tolkiens.</p>
<p>Wayne and Christina, my great thanks for visiting us and commenting this news. It&#8217;s an honour to see the commentary of the famous Hammond &amp; Scull. Have a good weekend.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Autor: Wayne &#38; Christina</title>
		<link>http://www.elendilion.pl/2010/02/06/what-do-we-know-about-the-ancestors-of-j-r-r-tolkien-monograph/comment-page-1/#comment-12544</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne &#38; Christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The name &quot;Tolkien&quot; varies in the UK census records because census takers sometimes misspelled it in writing it down, and in online indexes of census records because it was sometimes badly transcribed from manuscript originals. We recently spent time viewing again some of the census forms and found many difficulties of this sort.

The fact that many Tolkiens in England were in the music or piano business no doubt has something to do with the interest of the English middle class in music, but it does not necessarily follow that this is why Tolkiens moved to England. Some Tolkiens in fact were in other lines of work.

That&#039;s an interesting observation about the name &quot;Septimus&quot;, which was commonly used in large Victorian families for the seventh child (if a son). George William Tolkien and Eliza Murrell could well have had another, unrecorded child who died young and was never in a census. Also, we&#039;ve seen on several websites (repeating one another) a reference to a third daughter of John Benjamin Tolkien and Jane Holmwood -- Jane Tolkien b. 1846 -- but can&#039;t verify this in official documents.

There&#039;s still much to be learned about the Tolkien family as one digs deeper into the public record.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The name &#8220;Tolkien&#8221; varies in the UK census records because census takers sometimes misspelled it in writing it down, and in online indexes of census records because it was sometimes badly transcribed from manuscript originals. We recently spent time viewing again some of the census forms and found many difficulties of this sort.</p>
<p>The fact that many Tolkiens in England were in the music or piano business no doubt has something to do with the interest of the English middle class in music, but it does not necessarily follow that this is why Tolkiens moved to England. Some Tolkiens in fact were in other lines of work.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s an interesting observation about the name &#8220;Septimus&#8221;, which was commonly used in large Victorian families for the seventh child (if a son). George William Tolkien and Eliza Murrell could well have had another, unrecorded child who died young and was never in a census. Also, we&#8217;ve seen on several websites (repeating one another) a reference to a third daughter of John Benjamin Tolkien and Jane Holmwood &#8212; Jane Tolkien b. 1846 &#8212; but can&#8217;t verify this in official documents.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s still much to be learned about the Tolkien family as one digs deeper into the public record.</p>
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		<title>Autor: Galadhorn</title>
		<link>http://www.elendilion.pl/2010/02/06/what-do-we-know-about-the-ancestors-of-j-r-r-tolkien-monograph/comment-page-1/#comment-12543</link>
		<dc:creator>Galadhorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elendilion.pl/?p=4570#comment-12543</guid>
		<description>I agree with Beregond. We would have to see the original sources because the scanned documents may have many misspellings due to the method of the scanning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Beregond. We would have to see the original sources because the scanned documents may have many misspellings due to the method of the scanning.</p>
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		<title>Autor: Beregond</title>
		<link>http://www.elendilion.pl/2010/02/06/what-do-we-know-about-the-ancestors-of-j-r-r-tolkien-monograph/comment-page-1/#comment-12542</link>
		<dc:creator>Beregond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sorry, I did not edit carefully. Read: &quot;. . . from online sources they may be the result of faulty OCR when the original documents were scanned.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I did not edit carefully. Read: &#8220;. . . from online sources they may be the result of faulty OCR when the original documents were scanned.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Autor: Beregond</title>
		<link>http://www.elendilion.pl/2010/02/06/what-do-we-know-about-the-ancestors-of-j-r-r-tolkien-monograph/comment-page-1/#comment-12541</link>
		<dc:creator>Beregond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elendilion.pl/?p=4570#comment-12541</guid>
		<description>You write &quot;Tonkien (as was the case in 1901 with the surname of Mabel Tolkien and her sons, whose first names were written down as John and Hilaiy)&quot;. Where did you find these misspellings? I think that if they are from in online sources they may be the result of faulty OCR when original documents were scanned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write &#8220;Tonkien (as was the case in 1901 with the surname of Mabel Tolkien and her sons, whose first names were written down as John and Hilaiy)&#8221;. Where did you find these misspellings? I think that if they are from in online sources they may be the result of faulty OCR when original documents were scanned.</p>
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